dude I'm slowly making my way through these quotes...feels like eating a big plate of nachos for my brain.
on the idea of camaraderie, have you read stuff by Alfred Adler? I've not directly but via this book "The Courage to be Disliked" which is essentially a distillation of Adler, and a big thing he covers is understanding that other people are our comrades, not our competition. U might dig it
Iβm about to go on a bit and am not sure Iβll be convincing: forgive if you read on: I have ten books by Kundera on my favored book shelf above the desk where I write. Many of them are highlighted but the most highlights are in _Testaments Betrayed_. I once wrote a bunch of quotes I entitled βWhat Is Artβ. Most quotes are from Kundera and William Gass.
Iβve been most disturbed by the assertion by some of Kunderaβs misogyny. To view Kundera through that lens is not to understand what art is.
Your longer quote on βWhat the novel teaches us about moralityβ and that I quoted a portion ofβwas it yesterday or the day before?β disputes any such conclusion, e.g., misogyny. If we understand what art is, then no such conclusion can be made.
Here are Kundera and Gass to help me:
Kundera: βBut the conformism of public opinion is a force that sets itself up as a tribunal, and the tribunal is not there to waste time over ideas, it is there to conduct the investigations for trials.β
Gass: βWhy are works of art so socially important? Not for the messages they may contain, not because they expose slavery or cry hurrah for the worker, although such messages in their place and time might be important, but because they insist more than most on their reality; because of the absolute way in which they exist. ... So I donβt think that itβs the message of a work of art that gives it any lasting social value. On the contrary, insisting on this replaces the work with its interpretation, another way of robbing it of its reality. β¦ Works of art are meant to be lived with and loved, and if we try to understand them, we should try to understand them as we try to understand anyoneβin order to know them (italics on βthemβ) better, not in order to know something else.β
Thank you for this. I'd pretty much forgotten about Kundera until his death -- though I did use my favourite part of Immortality--Avenarius systematically slashing car tires in Paris at night--in a post a few months back.
Paris has been in mourning. There's been some great press tributes and radio panels about him. In one of the latter, on France Inter a couple of days ago, I learned that the Czech police had tracked his movements right through the 80s, a decade after his exile in France, and that during the last years of his life he only spoke Czech and wasn't sure what country he belonged to, other than the "la patrie de Vera" (his wife) and "la patrie du roman" (the novel). To your list I'd add L'Ignorance, one of the novels he wrote in French. And Life is Elsewhere. And...
Alright, you sold me. Was on the way to the library with my daughter for the afternoon. Going to pick up Immortality.
Iβve been a bit drained from all the screen time lately and needed something printed. This feels like the perfect fit. Never heard of Kundera but, damn, some of these quotes.
Thank you so much for this collection of passages. Kundera was the first truly philosophical novelist I encountered, at the (relatively late?) age of sixteen. I'm excited by him again, decades later. Perhaps dangerously - he might have been responsible for sending me off the rails a little, or at least spinning me round to totter off into the arms of Nietzsche. I'd forgotten his ascerbic edges - he seemed much softer to me as an immature, and perhaps less inhibited reader.
And I enjoyed your clarification that it was one of Kundera's *characters* declaring a commitment to hedonism. It makes me wonder how completely divorced we are from even our worst literary children.
When I read about his death my first thought was: βI wonder what Millsβll post?β
I havenβt read any Kundera in 10+ years but Iβm feeling like these quotes are a way back in. Testaments Betrayed was extremely helpful to me in my early twenties, as someone whoβd read a lot of good novels but almost zero criticism.
For Nietzsche loves βa bold and exuberant intellectuality that runs presto,β and he makes fun of the savants.
I pity the SAVANTS. That said. I digg spiritual fiction aka the Philosphical novel. And even tho I write gritty black pulp fiction, at heart, its jes based on the spiritual of hoodoo I was raised in Louisiana/Mississippi. Gittin it out da MUD and tryna elevate it a lil skeetaste.
Tons of take-a-ways in this piece. I appreciated this drop.
I have not heard of Kundera and I enjoy philosophy. This quote struck me
"When we study, discuss, analyze a reality, we analyze it as it appears in our mind, in our memory. We know reality only in the past tense. We do not know it as it is in the present, in the moment when itβs happening, when it is. The present moment is unlike the memory of it. Remembering is not the negative of forgetting. Remembering is a form of forgetting."
It is a reason why I have this tendency to disbelieve what I recall. Our brains tend to filter out so much information that we can never really trust ourselves to remember what it is we wanted to remember. Also we are biased in whatever situation we are in so our memory will definitely be different to those who we shared the memory with. Perhaps when our entire being gets loaded into something more able to handle the data and load can we really experience memory as it is, but until then, I remain a memory skeptic.
Also why I do agree with the 'fog' in relation to history, I would like to point out that one should always be wary of it. For like my previous statement who can absolutely tell with certainty the history when even those that write it or those we reference it might be, without meaning to be, biased. I mean, if we can't trust our own memory, can we really trust those whose memories are written? But I can go on and on rambling.
Also on a different note, I can't help but smile with regards to the quotes on secrets. :)
This is a profound piece. Thank you for sharing it.
"From him, I learned to be suspicious of my tendency towards sentimental self-expansion, a crucial lesson for someone with my personality. When I βloveβ something, I am often projecting myself onto it, associating myself with its qualities, deluding myself about who I am and why I think what I think. When I βidentifyβ with something, I am often fleeing from the reality of my identity-less-ness, like every generation before me that disappeared into its mass movements or affiliations or scenes βthe names of which are now not only forgotten but, when remembered, ridiculousβ and the othering they usually engender. When I βreason,β I am often merely rationalizing feelings, or perhaps something deeper than feelings: patterns of inertia, archetypes and other forms from the past, animal instincts. When I βbelieve,β I do not choose to do so: so to be proud of my beliefs is as to be proud of my eye color; and indeed, often I seem to βbelieveβ things that permit the behavior I prefer to engage in or the feelings I want: what happy chance!"
Like Alex Dobrenko says here β this felt like a big plate of nachos for my brain as well. With extra cheese and jalapeΓ±os. π€―
This enters a different layer of existentialism and meta self-awareness that I'm still trying to wrap my head around....
Okay okay okay wow. This was amazing. I loved your intro reflecting on what Kundera taught you. I think for me -- and I'm like you in that I see myself in Kundera (and now in you!) at the same time as I feel his influence pressing me towards the dissipation of that urge -- what I got from Kundera was a sense of spacious self-permissiveness. I really benefitted from that, which I feel one can get purely from reading him and observing how he permits himself to go on.
Nobody posted my favourite Kundera quote yet though! It is this:
βPeople are always shouting they want to create a better future. It's not true. The future is an apathetic void of no interest to anyone. The past is full of life, eager to irritate us, provoke and insult us, tempt us to destroy or repaint it. The only reason people want to be masters of the future is to change the past.β
dude I'm slowly making my way through these quotes...feels like eating a big plate of nachos for my brain.
on the idea of camaraderie, have you read stuff by Alfred Adler? I've not directly but via this book "The Courage to be Disliked" which is essentially a distillation of Adler, and a big thing he covers is understanding that other people are our comrades, not our competition. U might dig it
Iβm about to go on a bit and am not sure Iβll be convincing: forgive if you read on: I have ten books by Kundera on my favored book shelf above the desk where I write. Many of them are highlighted but the most highlights are in _Testaments Betrayed_. I once wrote a bunch of quotes I entitled βWhat Is Artβ. Most quotes are from Kundera and William Gass.
Iβve been most disturbed by the assertion by some of Kunderaβs misogyny. To view Kundera through that lens is not to understand what art is.
Your longer quote on βWhat the novel teaches us about moralityβ and that I quoted a portion ofβwas it yesterday or the day before?β disputes any such conclusion, e.g., misogyny. If we understand what art is, then no such conclusion can be made.
Here are Kundera and Gass to help me:
Kundera: βBut the conformism of public opinion is a force that sets itself up as a tribunal, and the tribunal is not there to waste time over ideas, it is there to conduct the investigations for trials.β
Gass: βWhy are works of art so socially important? Not for the messages they may contain, not because they expose slavery or cry hurrah for the worker, although such messages in their place and time might be important, but because they insist more than most on their reality; because of the absolute way in which they exist. ... So I donβt think that itβs the message of a work of art that gives it any lasting social value. On the contrary, insisting on this replaces the work with its interpretation, another way of robbing it of its reality. β¦ Works of art are meant to be lived with and loved, and if we try to understand them, we should try to understand them as we try to understand anyoneβin order to know them (italics on βthemβ) better, not in order to know something else.β
Thank you for this. I'd pretty much forgotten about Kundera until his death -- though I did use my favourite part of Immortality--Avenarius systematically slashing car tires in Paris at night--in a post a few months back.
Paris has been in mourning. There's been some great press tributes and radio panels about him. In one of the latter, on France Inter a couple of days ago, I learned that the Czech police had tracked his movements right through the 80s, a decade after his exile in France, and that during the last years of his life he only spoke Czech and wasn't sure what country he belonged to, other than the "la patrie de Vera" (his wife) and "la patrie du roman" (the novel). To your list I'd add L'Ignorance, one of the novels he wrote in French. And Life is Elsewhere. And...
Alright, you sold me. Was on the way to the library with my daughter for the afternoon. Going to pick up Immortality.
Iβve been a bit drained from all the screen time lately and needed something printed. This feels like the perfect fit. Never heard of Kundera but, damn, some of these quotes.
I love your post and I love the quote you chose for the title.
I think I will use it as well for the review I am planning to write on De Sade's Philosophy in the Bedroom.
I like Kundera, but to me, Kafka is the one with the gut-wrenching power.
Thank you so much for this collection of passages. Kundera was the first truly philosophical novelist I encountered, at the (relatively late?) age of sixteen. I'm excited by him again, decades later. Perhaps dangerously - he might have been responsible for sending me off the rails a little, or at least spinning me round to totter off into the arms of Nietzsche. I'd forgotten his ascerbic edges - he seemed much softer to me as an immature, and perhaps less inhibited reader.
And I enjoyed your clarification that it was one of Kundera's *characters* declaring a commitment to hedonism. It makes me wonder how completely divorced we are from even our worst literary children.
When I read about his death my first thought was: βI wonder what Millsβll post?β
I havenβt read any Kundera in 10+ years but Iβm feeling like these quotes are a way back in. Testaments Betrayed was extremely helpful to me in my early twenties, as someone whoβd read a lot of good novels but almost zero criticism.
For Nietzsche loves βa bold and exuberant intellectuality that runs presto,β and he makes fun of the savants.
I pity the SAVANTS. That said. I digg spiritual fiction aka the Philosphical novel. And even tho I write gritty black pulp fiction, at heart, its jes based on the spiritual of hoodoo I was raised in Louisiana/Mississippi. Gittin it out da MUD and tryna elevate it a lil skeetaste.
Tons of take-a-ways in this piece. I appreciated this drop.
Damn, brother-- this is really interesting. Iβve saved it so I can dig into it further, and downloaded the Testaments book.
You're remembering too much... :)
(I have a full Kundera shelve... and I'm from Eastern Europe too)
Oh I love Kundera so much and you posted some of his best quotes π€
I have not heard of Kundera and I enjoy philosophy. This quote struck me
"When we study, discuss, analyze a reality, we analyze it as it appears in our mind, in our memory. We know reality only in the past tense. We do not know it as it is in the present, in the moment when itβs happening, when it is. The present moment is unlike the memory of it. Remembering is not the negative of forgetting. Remembering is a form of forgetting."
It is a reason why I have this tendency to disbelieve what I recall. Our brains tend to filter out so much information that we can never really trust ourselves to remember what it is we wanted to remember. Also we are biased in whatever situation we are in so our memory will definitely be different to those who we shared the memory with. Perhaps when our entire being gets loaded into something more able to handle the data and load can we really experience memory as it is, but until then, I remain a memory skeptic.
Also why I do agree with the 'fog' in relation to history, I would like to point out that one should always be wary of it. For like my previous statement who can absolutely tell with certainty the history when even those that write it or those we reference it might be, without meaning to be, biased. I mean, if we can't trust our own memory, can we really trust those whose memories are written? But I can go on and on rambling.
Also on a different note, I can't help but smile with regards to the quotes on secrets. :)
This is a profound piece. Thank you for sharing it.
"From him, I learned to be suspicious of my tendency towards sentimental self-expansion, a crucial lesson for someone with my personality. When I βloveβ something, I am often projecting myself onto it, associating myself with its qualities, deluding myself about who I am and why I think what I think. When I βidentifyβ with something, I am often fleeing from the reality of my identity-less-ness, like every generation before me that disappeared into its mass movements or affiliations or scenes βthe names of which are now not only forgotten but, when remembered, ridiculousβ and the othering they usually engender. When I βreason,β I am often merely rationalizing feelings, or perhaps something deeper than feelings: patterns of inertia, archetypes and other forms from the past, animal instincts. When I βbelieve,β I do not choose to do so: so to be proud of my beliefs is as to be proud of my eye color; and indeed, often I seem to βbelieveβ things that permit the behavior I prefer to engage in or the feelings I want: what happy chance!"
Like Alex Dobrenko says here β this felt like a big plate of nachos for my brain as well. With extra cheese and jalapeΓ±os. π€―
This enters a different layer of existentialism and meta self-awareness that I'm still trying to wrap my head around....
"Kafka went into the dark depths of the joke" - he was one of the few he understood what Franz was really doing.
I always wanted to meet him, despite the scowl.
Okay okay okay wow. This was amazing. I loved your intro reflecting on what Kundera taught you. I think for me -- and I'm like you in that I see myself in Kundera (and now in you!) at the same time as I feel his influence pressing me towards the dissipation of that urge -- what I got from Kundera was a sense of spacious self-permissiveness. I really benefitted from that, which I feel one can get purely from reading him and observing how he permits himself to go on.
Nobody posted my favourite Kundera quote yet though! It is this:
βPeople are always shouting they want to create a better future. It's not true. The future is an apathetic void of no interest to anyone. The past is full of life, eager to irritate us, provoke and insult us, tempt us to destroy or repaint it. The only reason people want to be masters of the future is to change the past.β
Glad to meet a fellow Kundera reader. What you said about his covers is also true. Been reading this post since yesterday. It's beautiful.