As someone with a parent whose bipolar manifests in the Kanye register on a good day, this all tracks with my observations!
Feel like there’s real potential for a good stand-up bit about impostor syndrome in unglamorous jobs, like the people hired by Rent the Runway to smell the returned items and determine whether they were properly dry cleaned. “It’s too much pressure! Everyone else on the crotch sniffing team has advanced degrees. How are they trusting ME with this responsibility?”
Reminds me of debates about “elite capture” in social justice movements— the tendency of the most respectable, the best educated, the most privileged members of X marginalized group to become the most public & lauded spokespeople— thus kicking off a cycle of jealousy, resentment, critique, cancellation by more “median” members— and at no point during which much real change ever happens
I think we talked about my family connection to these issues - it’s real! but aside from that I have a theory that society elevates those they see themselves (or would wish to see themselves) in and makes celebrities out of them. Society elevates them and lives vicariously through them; but develops a co-dependent relationship (maybe wrong word) where their admiration, vicarious living can easily turn into jealousy or resentment; so sometimes it’s actually best not to be in the camp society chooses to elevate. Like J said, society doesn’t really know shit.
Yeah!!! I should remember to be more inclusive when I mention that society doesn’t know shit; I also don’t know shit, and I’m -against my wishes- part of society, to whatever extent it exists!
😂 often against my wishes for sure. I do believe there’s a dimension where we can separate ourselves from traditional societal norms; but to the extent we’re still breathing here, we have to learn to co-exist and be value-adds.
There’s this movie I’ve never seen called “The Minus Man,” but its tagline has always stayed with me and been something I aspire to for myself: “When he’s around, nothing adds up.” Someone needs to value-subtract, and that’s the career I’m looking for after this one!!!
Jun 4, 2023·edited Jun 4, 2023Liked by Mills Baker
Really, really loved reading this! A group presents well when its archetypical cases are, well, typical.
But I’m also reminded that the definitions of disorders seem to widen because people want to classify themselves as having it, even if it’s a “less extreme” form - anxiety being a great example. Forgive the analogy, but it’s like there’s a marketplace of disorders: a disorder needs to be marketable, in part because there are people who want to buy into it.
Yep!! I agree. I have thought those same things about Kanye for years and I thought he was bipolar long before he came out publicly about it. I have the bipolar type one and it can be fucking gross and watering it down to make money from it in the media as a palatable thing to morbidly fascinate others and make them ask themselves if maybe they’ve got bipolar because they get a little hyper sometimes and a little sad… Fuck that also if I have to hear everyone is a little bipolar one more time.... idk. Thank you for this. I have so many more comments, but my daughter just woke up. Looking forward to reading more from you!
I’m having a really hard time believing you were ugly in high school lol
This effect you’re describing, a kind of regression to the aesthetic mean, seems to happen on tikgram, but an individual artist would have the opportunity to profile more interesting humans, right?
Oh, I have documentary evidence; I think part of why Dee’s piece hit home for me was that (among other issues) I had cystic acne, a rather severe case that could never have been “reinterpreted” as anything other than gnarly; like: I think people cannot help but react viscerally to a basically wound-covered and greasy face! (And I was resentfully resistant to any real treatments, lol). I was also pudgy, and bullies made sport of it; I’m sure others had it worse, though.
Individual artists can and do avoid these dynamics altogether; I love art as much as I hate scenes (and assume others love scenes and hate art, etc). Sometimes I think only artists have the capacity to do so and that’s why art is so badass / reliably free of all this psychodrama (at least: in its products; art scenes are hell lmfao).
I think you may be right about art. Any bit of commerce is going to add some milquetoast gravity. I found it hilarious in The Devil’s Candy that Brian De Palma was forced to alter the plot to make the main character of Bonfire likable because they needed a big star in the role, and Tom Hanks didn’t work as a villain.
There might be exceptions. Check out, for example, the top posts of the Crippling Alcoholism subreddit. No memes, no glorifying, just people sharing their shitty experiences with those who might be able to relate.
I used to be in a ton of these subs, and they’re often very good; I suspect there’s a “Fight Club” adjacent dynamic where if the condition is bad enough or inglorious enough or whatever, you’re semi-safe; or just if they stay relatively small. Some of the drinking subs are lousy with people who have the mildest conditions and make the biggest deal of it!
Come on. I'm the one. I don't know about you guys. But I stand behind my delusions, 100 percent. Everything else is Miss Manners, motivational speakers on youtube, and a psychochemical penthouse loft. Can't we just level up?
I love what you’re doing with writing and that you’re taking on the topic, and I agree that bipolars do unforgivable things. I try to mind my business and don’t expect to have a community but I still have something to offer humanity.
I’m not bipolar but much of what you say is in fact, imho, generalisable and rings true (particularly the references to de stigmatisation). Thanks for making me think about this and smile occasionally. The reference to Conquest is apposite imho.
Hahaha, sounds like we have a similar relationship with meds, and I suppose we’re the lucky ones! I’ve been on my cocktail (mood stabilizer + anti depressant) for 23 years now and it’s been the difference; my unfortunate relatives who were born before widespread acceptance / treatment / new drugs all fared so much worse.
I can't believe lobotomies aren't more of a scandal. It took me about 3 years with a wonderful doctor to get myself sorted pharmaceutically; my mother wasn't so fortunate, and had a terrible time on lithium, which was all they had then.
It's very funny to be in the position of being grateful to Big Pharma, given how detested they are, but like: life and death for me. Whatever their motives or fuckups, they did give me life.
Lmfao!!! One thing that made me write this was a type of experience I had often writing in Quora: I’d see a question about bipolar disorder and that previous answers all seemed to have been written by people with mild, appealing cases. So I’d write my bracing corrective, and would soon have comments or DMs from people with much worse cases saying: “You sound like one of the lucky ones!” (And I am).
As someone with a parent whose bipolar manifests in the Kanye register on a good day, this all tracks with my observations!
Feel like there’s real potential for a good stand-up bit about impostor syndrome in unglamorous jobs, like the people hired by Rent the Runway to smell the returned items and determine whether they were properly dry cleaned. “It’s too much pressure! Everyone else on the crotch sniffing team has advanced degrees. How are they trusting ME with this responsibility?”
Reminds me of debates about “elite capture” in social justice movements— the tendency of the most respectable, the best educated, the most privileged members of X marginalized group to become the most public & lauded spokespeople— thus kicking off a cycle of jealousy, resentment, critique, cancellation by more “median” members— and at no point during which much real change ever happens
Nothing but good times on this planet!!!
Also the best looking, particularly since many contemporary movements rely heavily on visual representation.
“Sophia has objections to this statement, I should note!” would be a good thing for them to put on my tombstone
I think we talked about my family connection to these issues - it’s real! but aside from that I have a theory that society elevates those they see themselves (or would wish to see themselves) in and makes celebrities out of them. Society elevates them and lives vicariously through them; but develops a co-dependent relationship (maybe wrong word) where their admiration, vicarious living can easily turn into jealousy or resentment; so sometimes it’s actually best not to be in the camp society chooses to elevate. Like J said, society doesn’t really know shit.
Should also include myself in society, awareness is just key..
Yeah!!! I should remember to be more inclusive when I mention that society doesn’t know shit; I also don’t know shit, and I’m -against my wishes- part of society, to whatever extent it exists!
😂 often against my wishes for sure. I do believe there’s a dimension where we can separate ourselves from traditional societal norms; but to the extent we’re still breathing here, we have to learn to co-exist and be value-adds.
There’s this movie I’ve never seen called “The Minus Man,” but its tagline has always stayed with me and been something I aspire to for myself: “When he’s around, nothing adds up.” Someone needs to value-subtract, and that’s the career I’m looking for after this one!!!
Ha, I feel that. Sometimes the scales are rigged man!
Really, really loved reading this! A group presents well when its archetypical cases are, well, typical.
But I’m also reminded that the definitions of disorders seem to widen because people want to classify themselves as having it, even if it’s a “less extreme” form - anxiety being a great example. Forgive the analogy, but it’s like there’s a marketplace of disorders: a disorder needs to be marketable, in part because there are people who want to buy into it.
Yep!! I agree. I have thought those same things about Kanye for years and I thought he was bipolar long before he came out publicly about it. I have the bipolar type one and it can be fucking gross and watering it down to make money from it in the media as a palatable thing to morbidly fascinate others and make them ask themselves if maybe they’ve got bipolar because they get a little hyper sometimes and a little sad… Fuck that also if I have to hear everyone is a little bipolar one more time.... idk. Thank you for this. I have so many more comments, but my daughter just woke up. Looking forward to reading more from you!
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Time to retire!!! (Thank you, of course!!!).
I'm racing my way through "Lit," Mary Karr's memoir of addiction. I just came across a section title that reminded me of this post:
"Being Who You Are Is Not a Disorder"
Oh, that’s great!!! What a good way to put it!
I’m having a really hard time believing you were ugly in high school lol
This effect you’re describing, a kind of regression to the aesthetic mean, seems to happen on tikgram, but an individual artist would have the opportunity to profile more interesting humans, right?
Oh, I have documentary evidence; I think part of why Dee’s piece hit home for me was that (among other issues) I had cystic acne, a rather severe case that could never have been “reinterpreted” as anything other than gnarly; like: I think people cannot help but react viscerally to a basically wound-covered and greasy face! (And I was resentfully resistant to any real treatments, lol). I was also pudgy, and bullies made sport of it; I’m sure others had it worse, though.
Individual artists can and do avoid these dynamics altogether; I love art as much as I hate scenes (and assume others love scenes and hate art, etc). Sometimes I think only artists have the capacity to do so and that’s why art is so badass / reliably free of all this psychodrama (at least: in its products; art scenes are hell lmfao).
Oof yeah. No evidence needed.
I think you may be right about art. Any bit of commerce is going to add some milquetoast gravity. I found it hilarious in The Devil’s Candy that Brian De Palma was forced to alter the plot to make the main character of Bonfire likable because they needed a big star in the role, and Tom Hanks didn’t work as a villain.
There might be exceptions. Check out, for example, the top posts of the Crippling Alcoholism subreddit. No memes, no glorifying, just people sharing their shitty experiences with those who might be able to relate.
https://old.reddit.com/r/cripplingalcoholism/top/?sort=top&t=year
I used to be in a ton of these subs, and they’re often very good; I suspect there’s a “Fight Club” adjacent dynamic where if the condition is bad enough or inglorious enough or whatever, you’re semi-safe; or just if they stay relatively small. Some of the drinking subs are lousy with people who have the mildest conditions and make the biggest deal of it!
My biggest gripe with CA back in the days of my misspent youth was that they couldn't handle their liquor 🤦
You get a heart simply for the old URL... I mean, I would never click on a link to reddit these days, but... nice to see old is still around.
I tried to do a "contra" Kanye in a way that wasn't minimizing. Curious to hear your take: https://open.substack.com/pub/thefrontierpsychiatrists/p/a-psychiatrist-explains-whats-really?utm_source=direct&r=1ct8f&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Come on. I'm the one. I don't know about you guys. But I stand behind my delusions, 100 percent. Everything else is Miss Manners, motivational speakers on youtube, and a psychochemical penthouse loft. Can't we just level up?
I love what you’re doing with writing and that you’re taking on the topic, and I agree that bipolars do unforgivable things. I try to mind my business and don’t expect to have a community but I still have something to offer humanity.
https://unitedstatesofanderson.substack.com/p/suicide-season
Oh thank you! Subscribed with enthusiasm!!!
Thank you so much, Mills. God is great.
I’m not bipolar but much of what you say is in fact, imho, generalisable and rings true (particularly the references to de stigmatisation). Thanks for making me think about this and smile occasionally. The reference to Conquest is apposite imho.
Hahaha, sounds like we have a similar relationship with meds, and I suppose we’re the lucky ones! I’ve been on my cocktail (mood stabilizer + anti depressant) for 23 years now and it’s been the difference; my unfortunate relatives who were born before widespread acceptance / treatment / new drugs all fared so much worse.
I can't believe lobotomies aren't more of a scandal. It took me about 3 years with a wonderful doctor to get myself sorted pharmaceutically; my mother wasn't so fortunate, and had a terrible time on lithium, which was all they had then.
It's very funny to be in the position of being grateful to Big Pharma, given how detested they are, but like: life and death for me. Whatever their motives or fuckups, they did give me life.
Lobotomy is a Nobel prize winner...https://open.substack.com/pub/thefrontierpsychiatrists/p/the-birth-of-biological-psychiatry?utm_source=direct&r=1ct8f&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Lmfao!!! One thing that made me write this was a type of experience I had often writing in Quora: I’d see a question about bipolar disorder and that previous answers all seemed to have been written by people with mild, appealing cases. So I’d write my bracing corrective, and would soon have comments or DMs from people with much worse cases saying: “You sound like one of the lucky ones!” (And I am).
It’s all inescapable!!!